Interview with Sports Massage Expert Kiplimö Chemirmir

Written by Roger White on . Posted in Blog, Videos

Kip treating Leo Manzano

Kiplimo Chemirmir is one of the busiest sports massage therapists.  Kip has just traveled all over the southwestern states doing work on runners.   Kip spent many years racing professionally and turned up some impressive times.  He still races often, and I have even seen him running a marathon himself, and then doing massage on runners after!  He’s full of energy, enthusiasm, and an incredible passion running.

Hi Kip, Thanks for taking time to answer a few questions.  It’s an honor to have the opportunity to ask you about your unique life as a sports massage therapist! You are well known in the Austin, Texas and in most of the country, for your sports massage.  What makes a therapist sought out and what makes you different from all the other massage therapists out there?

What I do is what makes me different, for it was not learned or made in US, and no one does it around the world also. It’s often aggressive and its only done to athletes. It took me a long visit to China and Thailand to study the art of making a champion through massaging, stretching and other various exercises which are very intense in nature, so I could add to my Kenyan massage technique.

I was compelled to design Kenthaichi technique so it can serve more than injury but preventing it also. For the most glaring thing I found after all many years as an elite athlete: Runners, out of all the athletes, lacked the most in terms of education in the areas of fitness/performance training, well-being, patience to heal, nutritional support, supplementation usage, and lifestyle choices. In the end I came to realize the athlete has gotten faster and stronger.

My role with the in the fitness and therapy world is to bridge the gap between the lifestyle and the sport. I want to build the ultimate runner deep in the road and track: agile, fast, powerful, skilled, resistant to injuries, swift to recover from the clobbering they get from intense or training in the heat, and most important undisturbed by fatigue. I also want to build the ultimate warrior outside of the ring they sweat and bleed upon: lean, muscular, balanced, symmetrical, healthful, and educated with wisdom of a true warrior that is molded in Kenthaichi. Finally, I plan to build a fortress around the athlete: a tight-knit support system of understanding friends, the pain and their training. How to treat the family , themselves and friends when injured. Strengthen them to not only understands the battle inside training and competition, but also the lengthy journey to get there. When we speak therapy, it's more than for the body, but for the mind too, because the most stubborn injury is the one that hides in shadows behind ones mind. I do all hide because like being part of someone village that helps them win. for I believe all that we are should stand as a humble warrior when in defeat or in victory. Helping them stay fit and healthy helps us therapists too become great role models.

So you have created a blending of therapy styles from around the world.  Who have been some of your therapy influences over time? 

Yes, I call it Kenthaichi, which stands for Kenya, Thailand and China. I created Kentaichi for the best so they can have the best that they seek. I call it the best because even my both teachers did not have the knowledge I ended up with.

My teacher from China for teaching me all the secrets, and his friend from Thailand Master Chan The Steel Elbow. My Chinese teacher, all that I am was the fire he wanted to bring in this world, if it wasn’t for him, I’d still be another Kenyan runner like those I hail from the same tribe with. I’m forever thankful because of them. ‘’I did not mention my Chinese teachers name, because no one calls him by his name. I only called him Shifu.''

Can you explain how your therapy techniques have evolved over time?

Every once in a while as therapist you will meet a client who has an injury you have no idea what it is. They’ll come complaining they’ve had it for months or years, visited doctors and chiropractors but nothing seems to work. To treat them I compel myself into a meditation and feel what the client feels, asking myself if I was the one who had their injury, how would I want it to be treated, and the answer has never failed me. With time and two more visits I have been blessed with the ability to defy chronic problems. Everyone who comes to see me, also comes with something to teach me so I can help others after them. I use this state of mind for it’s from the belief of warriors I hail from, that we must never fail from helping someone. This belief gives me a reason to know this is not business but a purpose.

During your sessions, the athlete is very active. They are being stretched and massaged often. I doubt anyone has ever fallen asleep during a treatment on your table!  I’ve seen you do deep tissue work briefly, and then stretch, and repeat this throughout the body.  Can you explain this concept?

Hahaha No one has ever fallen asleep, maybe when I’m using my left hand alone, which is the soothing one and the right one is the healing one, which does it like it’s a surgery session. Kenthaichi’s sole purpose is to reach the depths of everything that moves the body, from the mind, bones, joints, muscles, heart rate, lungs, and breath control. When one exercises and is massaged at the same time it’s the best chance to manipulate the tightness, flush the lactic acids, for in the end it’s not healing we would have achieved but also what creates an athlete which is, Flexibility, Endurance, Strength and Speed. If an athlete can endure a two to four hour sessions, then he or she will be able to endure anything that others find item hard.

In your experience, what are the biggest mistakes therapists make, and what might be wastes of time in therapy? 

Things I really find to be of no use is taking a clients money, just to tell them their problem, spend an hour with them doing nothing but rubbing, and talking then finish with cracking them. Not everyone needs adjustments and cracking. Patients need help fixing them. When a client comes to see you for a month with the same problem, yet they have been seeing you 2 to 3times a week. That's like robbing them.

Other mistakes is telling a client they need a surgery, also this kind of treatment is not necessary for everyone who is hurting and wants to go back to their sport.  Therapists need to find ways of connecting and helping them heal. Take time for it’s all we have, go beyond your time to help someone have time to do what they love. Surgery isn’t always a good thing. I’ve had friends I used to run, race and also friends and clients who have had surgery, many of them took the knife with the hopes of getting back better. When that thought is rooted in the mind, and the surgery has come to pass, the athlete will expect to train and run faster than before, but the body is imbalanced because of the tightness that the surgery left behind. The other side of the body begins to feel the toll. The body is meant to feel the pain, and when it does, we should teach them pull back and do other things like strength training, flexibility, swimming, aqua jogging, Cryotherapy, Ice Bath, stretching, and yoga so everything can connect and heal, because the body has the ability to heal itself when helped. If you are an athlete have a therapist who understands athletes and works with them. Being told to take some time off is just completely wrong for me, an active body is not something that can be switched off like that, it can be put to other things that the athlete has been ignoring to feed it with.

Speaking of feeding, diet is very important. There are foods that help the body heal, and also herbs and gels that the patient should be using at home. The patients also need to be taught to take care of themselves so when they come to see us, improvement comes swift.  A good and great therapist is someone who help and heal, not talk and take.

With all your massage work, what therapy techniques are most effective, and how do you measure effectiveness? 

For me I’m a great believer of flexibility and strength. It is what gave our ancestors longevity and a happy life. I always do all I can do make sure my clients have achieved that when they come to see me and when they go home that they stretch and roll, because I will know next time when they come to see me, and also they will tell me about their improvement and gain of confidence.

You do many treatments in your house, or on the road.  How much time do you actually get to spend on each athlete?  Do you ever do multiple sessions on an athlete daily?

Short sessions are 1 hour, but for elite runners we can go up to 3 or 4 hours, but that will only be twice in a month. For the elite yes I’ll do multiple sessions daily. When they have three workouts in a day, especially Tuesday and Thursday, three sessions will be needed, but they will not be very intense. For the elite it will be because I feel for them and I want to help them heal in a week, but I only do that to someone who seems really frustrated, broken and tired of what they’re going through. If I see them twice for 1 hour each for a day, by sunset their sad feelings will be gone, and next day they will start experiencing better feelings, so if we repeat that again after two days they will be feeling much better by the weekend.

Do you do any assessments and or evaluations do you do prior to treatments, and how does this guide your treatment? 

For me, only plantar fascia is the one that acts like anti chest and needs more exorcism time..jk! It’s the only injury that challenges me the most, but anything else if they can endure the first session, the next one, which must be soon after, will be able to change the course of the injury and not more than two weeks we will be talking or working on something else. I believe in myself, so I just pour my heart and soul into what’s meant to be fixed and plan won’t be needed that much. Because I will also need the client to believe in me, believe what we are doing is going to work, and what they are going to do at home will help. This has never failed us.

A Youtube video was posted where you had Leo Manzano connected to a tire and resistance bands.  (Link to video)  What is this doing?  Where did you come up with this concept?  Are there ideal times to use this and bad times to use this?



Wow, this will require me to write a book to explain it all, but I’ll try to brush it to the basics. I learned it Kenya, but perfected it when I came to America. First it’s like doing hill repeats at altitude. It helps with the blood flow. It strengthens the back, especially those with scoliosis and hip problems. It lengthens the strides and helps the foot land softly while running. It aligns the posture and helps the runner be and feel swift. It also helps a runner to not land on the ground but push the ground. It boosts stamina and swinging of hands. Among other things, because of it I was able to run 3:52 mile and 28 minutes for 10k with ease. The longest to do it is not more than an hour. Closer to races one can use it for no more than 30 minutes, and it’s great for warm up before the race. That pain one feels burning the chest will not be felt.

Do the techniques you use in the session vary depending on when race day is?  How would your treatments be modified on the day of a race, and also post-race? 

The last massage is always on Thursday if the race is on Saturday or Sunday, if another one will be needed it has to be the light massage, but only if we have been doing this in training so it doesn’t affect the results. It has to be part of training and not treatment. The closer to the race the stretching will be reduced and also the intensity of the massage. The athlete’s hands must be massaged every day on the week prior to the race. But the full body massage must not be more than 3 times in a week. After a race of course, the massage is need and it has to be deep, then next day also, then we’ll go a week or so without another.

How would you treat runners between rounds, if at all? 

Between rounds I often do light massage and lots of shaking. Whole body vibrating machine is perfect for that. The athletes to hop on it for 10 minutes then 7 minutes in an ice bath, followed by soaking in hot water with Epsom salt, then a 30 minute massage, which we’ll use arnica oil and arnica gel, then repeat the hot and cold water soaking, then compression boots, then finish with a 10 minutes on the vibrating machine. It’s very fun. If cryotherapy can be used instead of an ice bath it will work like magic!

What might be some things you travel with that someone might not be expect?

Kip's travel suppliesMy bags are always full like that of a clown, but the stuff I have inside are exercise stuff like the ab roller, weights, and resistance bands, among other things that athletes are scared of.  Nail clippers, hand sanitizer and hand lotion are actually closer to me than my wallet!

When working with athletes, is there a common request you find?

To be honest most know that I’m not like other therapists who only work on the area they’ve been asked. If the athlete says their hamstring is bothering them, then it begins from their back even up to the neck. If it’s the knee, then the glutes are going to wish they were somewhere else, because the weakness begins from there to the hip, then down the IT band, and boom to the knee. We are not like machines that when broken, it’s only in one area that requires fixing. I like to work on the entire body, so I can alter the problem but also how the mind thinks of the pain.

Most athletes, after I work on them, want to take me with them. They say I should go to their state and they’ll find me a place to stay and office to work in. Some have even hid my passports so I can stay a little longer with them. It’s also crazy sometimes when an elite runner asks me for an autograph. That’s why I don’t ask them for theirs because I don’t have a place to put them, I prefer taking picture of them and says so and so got Kip’d, and they seem to like it. Some who haven’t got Kip’d will do their best to come to me when I’m a their state. It’s always a wonderful feeling to do what I do, for it brings me a great honor.
Are there any events you will working in the next few months we might be able to find you at?

Kip doing a massage after he ran a race earlier that day.

Kip doing a massage after he ran a race earlier that day.

I will be in Dallas on December and Houston marathon next year, plus plenty of track races. I often avoid going to races because everyone will want to be massaged by me after a marathon or track race. It’s rare to see a therapist who stretches and passionately works on someone after a race till they’re limping from the beating they got in the race goes away. When others see this, or told by someone I just worked on, I’ll have an army of runners waiting for me to work on them, and it’s really hard to fit them all. Some have even waited for 5 hours to see me. I find it hard sometimes for me to be around runners. Even when running with them one will ask how to avoid a certain pain in their body or do to go faster. This life is the coolest.

Kip, you are absolutely incredible! Thank you so much for your time and openness.  It’s been really interesting to hear the behind the scenes stories.  I know I see you on Facebook with Kiprunning Sports Massage 

and on  Twitter @therunimal posting inspiring quotes.  Is there a website people can find more information on you? 

 I only have a blog where I write my wisdom, thoughts and few things about me.   If one wants to reach me, here is my email and phone is (972) 693 5181

It’s been a tremendous pleasure to be able to ask you these questions. I now there will be massage therapists out there reading this who will have learned something as a result.  Thank you for your time!

Hakuna matata my friend, it’s always wonderful to hear from you.

Thanks for all you do, never change that spirit.


Water based recovery techniques

Written by Roger White on . Posted in Blog, Videos

For runners and athletes of any sports, there comes a time when the body feels sluggish, "trashed," and legs feel dead.  One popular method for improving recovery from these conditions involves water, sometimes called hydrotherapy.  Likely you've heard about this, but now the question becomes:

  • Hot, cold, or both?
  • For how long?
  • Standing or sitting?
  • When is it best to use water therapy?
AIS Halson

Dr. Shona Halson inside AIS hydrotherapy facilities

Australian Institute of Sport Head of Recovery, Shona Halson, is one of the leading researchers in water therapy for performance, publishing numerous papers on the subject.  Her research has asked the right questions in determining how best to optimize water therapy in a recovery program for athletes.  She presented the answers to the questions above at the 2013 Aspetar Conference in Qatar.  Her presentation can be seen in this video below.  You can find her on Twitter at @ShonaHalson.

Get A Ph.D. in Results!

Written by Roger White on . Posted in Blog

I listened intently to every word. It was 8 a.m. sitting in a classroom with five other medical professionals, two chiropractors, one naturopath, one other massage therapist, plus myself. I decided to take a course to polish my assessment skills.  In his Spanish accent, the instructor began his talk about excellence. You see, the course typically has 15-20 enrolled. Although the course was smaller than normal, he discussed how the size of the class wouldn’t impact his teaching. He would still give the same effort to use six as he would to 20, or 50.

photo (4)

My notes from this course. "Have a Ph.D. in results"

Famous for using his white board markers, he grabbed the one, and scribbled on the board these five things: accuracy, clarity, 100% focus, commitment, and motivation. These things were his explanation as to why he gets the results he has.

“When you master these things, you’ll have a Ph.D. in results. Be sure you have a Ph.D. in results,” he said

When we started the hands-on portion of the course that first day, his first words hit me hard. So hard they have kept ringing in my ears since. “Pay attention to the details. Keep your finger nails short. Always keep them trimmed. I have done this for years. It keeps my touch very delicate. If I get a little dust on my fingers, it aggravates me. See, my finger tips are so sensitive, little things like that bother me.”

BOOM! Something so simple, something I have admittedly overlooked time and time again. Not that I didn’t keep my nails trimmed, but besides the obvious reason to trim them to keep from scratching clients, but the enhanced sensations keeping them short would bring.

As the course went on, the theme was clear. Pay attention to the details. Be delicate in your touch.  Doing the simple things well.

We went over various assessment tools, methods and tests. Over and over he would say how much of his success was due to his ability to find things that so many overlook. Little things, things like finding the exact lines of tension within body segments. He taught us his technique for identifying precise lines of tensions, using one of our classmates.  A little motion palpation was done on this line for a few minutes and it was clear significant improvements were made, both to the tissues and to range of motion.

“Listen to their body with your hands. Be silent and still.   You’ll find the restrictions.“ In the middle of checking ankle movement, he approached me and in his Spanish accent,  “Listen with your hands. You won’t feel anything like doing it that.”

I made adjustments, trying to decipher what listening with my hands meant.  Sure enough, I was able to detect the restriction much sooner than I initially felt.  Amazing!  Little things like that can make a big different to athletes.

So what can a massage therapist do to get a Ph.D. in results?  It can be summed up with a story from John Wooden.

“It’s the little details that are vital. Little things make the big things happen.” --John Wooden

The section in Wooden’s book titled “Details Create Success,” he described how the first meeting of the year, he discussed the simple things, often overlooked.  He made sure each player put on their socks correctly, avoided folds, wrinkles and creases, things that could leave players with blisters and hinder their performance. Wooden wrote, “I believe in the basics: attention to, and perfection of, tiny details that might commonly be overlooked. They may seem trivial, perhaps even laughable to those who don’t understand, but they aren’t….They are the difference between champions and near champions.”

Interview with Holley DeShaw

Written by Roger White on . Posted in Blog

Holley 1I have the incredible pleasure of catching up with a one of the top sports massage therapists, Holley DeShaw.  Holley is well known by the top athletes on the track circuit and travels the world to provide treatments. Holley has been a:

  • 2013 Nike Therapist working Pre Classic, USATF Nationals and IAAF World Championships
  • 2012 USATF London Olympics Medical Team member
  • 2011 USATF Medical Team Member for IAAF World Championships and Pan Am Games
  •  and so many more experiences to list!


Hi Holley! Thanks for taking time to answer a few questions.  It’s an honor to have the opportunity to ask you about some of the “life of a sports massage therapist” type questions.

You have worked with a few national teams, and also privately.  What makes a therapist sought out and what makes you different from all the other massage therapists out there?

I would have to say what makes a therapist or athlete medical support staff member sought out by athletes would be most importantly be the "quality" of their work.  It doesn't matter how impressive your resume or fancy your webpage, if you are aiming for a career with athletes, your dedication to your craft and application of it has to match the world class level athlete you are working with.

As far as what makes me different from other therapists, I have to be honest and say I don't compare myself, but I have had the opportunity in the past ten years to work along-side some incredibly talented therapists and medical practitioners and I always observe and aim to absorb some of their knowledge.

I believe in life when you find something you are truly passionate about doing and love not just like to do it, that is your calling.  That is step one in what will sets you apart in any profession.  Then your desire will always be for the very best in what you have to give!  The bar will always be set so high!  The drive to be the absolute best that YOU can be will make you want to study and work and perfect your craft, and then keep going!  I have a endless joy and energy that comes from this "profession."  It is hard to call it a profession because in the countless moments in the past 11 years that I have seen athletes shine and clients achieve goals, it gives me such happiness that I consider this career more a gift!  I will never accept anything less than my very best with each and every athlete and client I work with!

I read you have had a vast background of experiences.  Who have been some of your therapy influences over time? 

I have had the opportunity to do rotations and continuing education at the Olympic training centers and have also always sought out the quote on quote best in our line of work as well as on medical teams to learn from and study with.  I have always thought that the more tools (massage techniques) in my toolbelt the better equipped I would be to handle whatever situation I had to address from a soft-tissue standpoint.  I truly love my profession and find I have a persistent hunger to always learn more!  I have studied pretty close to all techniques applicable in our profession but one of the wonderful things about our line of work is you can always keep learning!  Something I always strive to do.

In my 11 years I have had the opportunity to work along side the best of the best when it comes to the athletic world.  From athletes, coaches, agents, LMT's,  MD's, DC's, CCSP's, ATC's, PT's, Sports Company Representatives and Governing Body Officials.  I have learned from each and every one of them!  I have soaked in every aspect of the business and the knowledge that I could get.  I always try to stay humble to and respectful of those I have worked for and with.  All of these people are incredible sources to learn from!

In your experience, what are the biggest mistakes therapists make, and what might be wastes of time in therapy, especially when you are on the race circuit?

I think therapists need to be very in tune and listen carefully to what the athlete is asking for as far as treatment.  Your application should always be based on exactly how that athlete’s body is reacting to your application.  Make sure your technique and application of your work is in line with what the athlete wants and to also be very aware of how the techniques you are applying will affect the athlete not only in the following hours, but days.  Make sure you are giving purpose driven work, and not generic.

With all your massage work, what therapy techniques are most effective (which do you use most), and how do you measure effectiveness?  How has your therapy sessions evolved since you first began, or have they remained relatively the same? 

The effectiveness of the techniques I apply are always based on the specific athlete I am working with and the timing and results we are aiming for.  For example, I take into consideration the athlete's sport, the biomechanics of the sport, the most probably injury potential in the sport and then I go in depth with the athlete.  I ask questions such as, how long have they been in their sport, what is their injury history, what is their training schedule, where are they in their training, when is their next game or race or event, how does their body react to soft-tissue work or stretching or taping applications.

This may sound like a lot, but to be honest this is just the beginning of how involved you should be when you are aiming to give the quality of work that will assist an athlete in reaching their peak performance potential.

I am also a CKTP and utilize kinesiotaping on a daily basis and have used all sorts of different applications in every sporting group i have worked with.  Normatecs are also a must in my line of work and I carry a set with me whenever I travel.

Normatec compression boots

You travel quite often around the country and in Europe.  When out on the road like this, how much time do you actually get to spend on each athlete?  Do you ever do multiple sessions daily?

It really depends if I am traveling for a company, a governing body, a specific group of athletes or even just for one athlete.  I have worked in all situations and have done everything from non-stop sessions with dozens of athletes day in and day out due to the number of athletes on the team. I have also traveled with smaller groups or even specific athletes and then all of our treatment times and applications are based on the timing of their race or game.

Do you do any assessments and or evaluations do you do prior to treatments, and how does this guide your treatment? (when athlete comes in for treatment, what do you do that determines the treatment plan?)

Absolutely! what we call the "intake'" process is key to deciding what your goals are for treatment. Again, going back to the questions such as where are they in their training cycle, when is their next race or game and I also incorporate physical testing or analysis which may include muscle testing, postural analysis, soft tissue palpation, ROM testing and other things like that.

Do the techniques you use in the session vary depending on when race day is?  How would your treatments be modified on the day of a race, and also post-race? 

In general the techniques you apply race day would be that of getting the athletes primary muscle groups warmed up and at the same time not taking any power out of them while facilitating maximum performance potential.  The longer you work with the athlete the more both you as the therapist and they as the athlete will know what types of applications are most conducive to their performance.  Post-race application should be focused on taking as much of the race off their body as possible, meaning facilitating blood and lymphatic flow and addressing any possible areas that they feel might have been affected during the race or game.

How were you selected for the USATF medical staff?

I was first selected by the USOC for a medical rotation in an Olympic Training Center. I was then selected by USATF and USACK.  Each team you are selected for you are evaluated by each and every staff member and athlete and have to attain a certain score to continue being placed.   I worked with both groups for two years and then committed fully to USATF, as my belief was that if I help in giving consistent and high quality work to the USATF athletes from 2008-2012 then in the Olympics I would have gained the trust and knowledge to help assist them to their best results.

If someone new were to be chosen for the team staff for the first time at a world championship event, what advice would you give to them?  What advice would you recommend for therapists doing so many hours of therapy daily? 

Be professional!  Give your best work each and every day, as the athletes are going out and giving their best.  You will work incredibly hard but the joy that comes from seeing the athletes you work with succeed is beyond anything else you may ever experience.

When you are on the road, where do your treatments take place?  When you work at these bigger meets and championship events, what determines if you treat athletes at the hotel or at the warm-up track?

This is a funny question for me!  You wouldn't believe some of the spaces or places you will work in as a sports therapist, especially overseas!  Be prepared to work in any and all environments.  I have worked in the hottest, coldest, smallest and most unbelievable places! You just have to at least appear calm and comfortable in any space as your energy will be apparent to the athletes you are working with.  Working at hotels and warm up tracks may be based on something as simple as credentialing or how an organizing committee has an event set up.

You have a Hall of Fame client list, working with these athletes in championship events, how would you treat them between rounds, if at all?   You’ve worked with athletes in many events.  Do you find that athletes of different event groups have certain styles of treatment they prefer? Or does each athlete let you do what you do?

When an athlete is going through rounds, we typically have discussed ahead of time exactly what will happen if they in fact want anything between rounds.  Many times "time" is a major factor and as a therapist, you need to be very aware of the time you have to work with and work within it.  Also, it is very important to have respect in timing with their coaches, agents, call rooms or whatever else they need to do in that time. You also need to be prepared for the unexpected to come up, in essence be prepared and over prepared for anything!

This may sound like a silly question!  What might be some things you travel with that someone might not be expect?  For me, it’s nail clippers!  I have to keep my nails short at all times.

Yes, I have those too!  I have a full kit that I travel with that includes everything from all sorts of bandages, wraps, Prossage, Biofreeze, scissors, tape, pins for bibs to Epsom salts.  You name it, I will probably have it in my kit! I always error on the side of over-prepared!

When working with athletes, is there a common request you find?

I have been and am truly blessed to have formed some long standing working relationships with athletes, coaches, agents and companies so they do trust me in my application as I have a long track record at this point of always being in line with an athlete’s treatment goal.  The communication is always there and ultimately I have found we are on the same page.  I have not had an athlete request an application that I felt would be adverse to their performance.  With the level of athletes I work with at this point in my career, they are very well aware of how their body performs best.

Are there any events you will working in the next few months we might be able to find you at?

I have been incredibly blessed in my career path to have worked with so many different sporting groups and athletes.  Currently, I am mainly focused on my work with athletes in track and field, the NBA and NFL, so that is where most of my work will be throughout the rest of the year. I try to keep those interested of my work up to date via twitter.

Holley, thank you so much for your time and openness.  It’s been really interesting to hear the behind the scenes stories.  I know I see you on Twitter @Holley_Deshaw posting updates of your travels. You can check out her webpage here: and can also find her on LinkedIn.  I look forward to seeing where you travel to next!

Thank you so much, Roger!  It was a pleasure!

Runners Massage Studio - 2013